Curse

bj91x · Jul 16, 2011, 04:37 AM // 04:37

What are people using for WoC quests? I find it very difficult to use a dagger spam Assassin effectively against WoC Afflicted. My Assassin relies heavily on enchants for both offense and defense. Since the Afflicted Mesmers and Necromancers are constantly removing these enchants, I can't use my normal A builds.

I ran into a similar problem with my Dervish but was able to create a good build that can put up with the spam of enchant removals. However, I can't seem to create a good dagger spam Assassin build that doesn't rely on enchants and doesn't get destroyed against the WoC Afflicted.

So far, the only build that's working for me is an Assassin's Promise build since the Afflicted aren't too heavy on hex removal. However, I'm not a fan of Assassin's Promise and would prefer a dagger spam build.

Olle · Jul 16, 2011, 06:36 AM // 06:36

if you must play a dagger chain id rely on a stance like Way of the asassin, or Flashing blade,for defence.
jagged strike, wild strike,Death blossom,wota/fb,optional(eotnskill?PI?),For Great Justice,
Save yourselves!

that will make a good dps but also give you some heavy defence.

Bandwagon · Jul 16, 2011, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Focus on prot spirits, rit weapon spells, heck maybe even command paragon skills (stand your ground) to cover yourself since killing each and every afflicted mesmer / necro is akin to casting a party wide chillblains. Effectively you are dealing with Defcon Level 5 Enchantment hate.

Don't use enchantments, just wipe them out of your team combination. At least until your done with the Afflicted.

AndrewSX · Jul 16, 2011, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Wota+Crit Eye+EotN skills to pump out dagger dmg = offence
Shelther, a couple of para shouts, weapon spells = defence.
A single microable prot spirit for pulling/balling if you want, something to keep away conds and hexes...

This should do the job.

Xenomortis · Jul 16, 2011, 11:38 AM // 11:38

I don't really see much reason to not use enchantments in your team; they work fine. The only threat are the death explosions from Mesmers and Necromancers, but only you suffer them and you can actually avoid them half the time and it's very easy to micro prots back onto you.
But then again, I've only done the first few HM quests on my Assassin, but all the Afflicted quests are generally the same (Minister Cho's and Haiju Lagoon vary somewhat and are much harder).

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3...untunnelsh.jpg
Wiped once due to a really bad pull (wasn't really a pull, I accidentally flagged my heroes into aggro range when flagging them out).

A possible trick is to micro Mark of Pain on a balled up group and simple spam attacks on that until everything is dead; these groups don't spread out too much.

bj91x · Jul 16, 2011, 07:22 PM // 19:22

OK, I think my original post is too vague so I'll go into more details.

Basically, here's an example of a build I"m trying to get to work:

Golden Fox Strike, Wild Strike, Death Blossom, Flashing Blades, Critical Eye, and a res. This leaves me with two skills to keep me alive. I'm not looking for skills like Protective Spirit, Stand Your Ground, etc. since my heroes bring these skills. I tried skills like Heart of Shadow and Ebon Escape but these don't work due to the long recharge.

The way I play my Assassin is very much like how I play my Warrior and Dervish. I charge in and AOE the crap out of the enemies while the enemies are pounding on me like crazy. So this means I need a constant flow of healing in order to stay alive (in addition to my 2 hero healers). So basically, I need an attribute that gives me two very good survival skills with quick recharge, but aren't enchantments.

Granted, this isn't the proper way to play an Assassin and I'd agree, but this kind of play style works in other areas thanks to skills like Critical Agility, Way of Perfection, etc. and I'd like to continue this same style with WoC quests.

Xenomortis · Jul 16, 2011, 07:27 PM // 19:27

I Am Unstoppable.
I can't really suggest anything until you post your full setup and explain how it fails.

Outerworld · Jul 16, 2011, 07:27 PM // 19:27

You don't really need to bring self-heals at all.

Kunder · Jul 19, 2011, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Simple: kill Necromancers/Mesmers last. Or kill them all at once if they group up. Even if you kill a mesmer too early you can reposition outside of the AoE strip and reprot yourself, while if its a necromancer just reprot immediately and go to town.

For the most part, enchant loss shouldn't hurt you too badly even when it happens. Critical agility and SoH are the only things worth being on you that can't be recast instantly, and DB spam is still enough to quickly take down most groups even without those. Just don't kill a mesmer then stand around in its AoE trying to cast enchants like a fool.

For Defense, carry Protective Spirit + Shield of Absorption. Seriously, thats all anyone has ever used since 5 years ago when Nightfall came out. If they focus on you then you take 0 damage from everything while both are up, and either one on its own is enough to keep you alive for quite some time. Only other major obvious thing to bring on your heroes is Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage on your Rit, because you can take an empty skill bar and still wipe groups if those are on you.

Also, go /W for Save Yourselves. Because its +100 RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing armor and assassins hit like a squirrel on crack.

Quote:

Granted, this isn't the proper way to play an Assassin and I'd agree, but this kind of play style works in other areas thanks to skills like Critical Agility, Way of Perfection, etc. and I'd like to continue this same style with WoC quests.

Nope, this has always been the "right" (as in most effective) way to play any melee class. The "right" (as in conceptually designed) way to play Assassin has never worked well.

TiagoS1 · Jul 19, 2011, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Agree with Kunder.

I recently played sin in some dungeons as DD, and discovered that anti enchant builds work wonderfully on high-end foes. The build i used:

Jagged Strike
Fox Fangs
Death Blossom
Assault Enchantments
Critical Eye
IAU
SY
Critical Defense/Asura Scan

This rapes in a matter of seconds any kind of monking/protecting on the opposite side.

Also MOP or Splinter will help greatly.

BlackSephir · Jul 19, 2011, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj91x

What are people using for WoC quests? I find it very difficult to use a dagger spam Assassin effectively against WoC Afflicted. My Assassin relies heavily on enchants for both offense and defense. Since the Afflicted Mesmers and Necromancers are constantly removing these enchants, I can't use my normal A builds.

Don't stand near them when they're low on health and about to die and use some cheap cover enchants.

Bobby2 · Jul 19, 2011, 05:18 PM // 17:18

If you don't want to do what Sephir suggests (paying attention) you might want to consider a stance IAS... enchant refresh can be a bitch

bj91x · Jul 19, 2011, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Thanks guys but none of the stuff here are what I'm looking for.

Like I mentioned, I'm not looking to carry skills like Protective Spirit, etc. since these are skills that my heroes carry. Save Yourselves doesn't work since it doesn't cover me. I have no interest in saving Necros for last. I also have no intention of moving out of their explosion range since like I said, I like to charge and AOE the crap out of them while enemies are pounding on me. Hit and run tactics really ain't my style.

Fortunately, I was able to create some good builds that cater to my style and are very fun to use.

I appreciate people trying to help, though. Again, thanks all.

Xenomortis · Jul 19, 2011, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj91x

Like I mentioned, I'm not looking to carry skills like Protective Spirit, etc.

Nobody has suggested that; these defensive skills are things that should go on heroes and it goes without saying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj91x

I have no interest in saving Necros for last. I also have no intention of moving out of their explosion range since like I said, I like to charge and AOE the crap out of them while enemies are pounding on me. Hit and run tactics really ain't my style.

Your failure to adapt is going to hurt; it is right you should struggle if you are not going to alter your play and don't aim to improve.

But to be honest, I didn't have to change my style too much using the build in the screenshot I posted earlier. And these enemies do ball up pretty well for rapid nuking for those inclined; I hear a microed Mark of Pain works wonders. There's no real need to worry about anything if they all blow up in seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj91x

Fortunately, I was able to create some good builds that cater to my style and are very fun to use.

Care to share?

Edit:
For those that may be interested and since it's somewhat relevant, I recorded myself doing the Shenzun Tunnels HM quest on my Assassin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL2kVmV-Bz8

Kunder · Jul 20, 2011, 05:33 AM // 05:33

You hardly have to save Necromancers for the very last, you are only required to leave them until the point where minorly decreased killing efficiency on yourself isn't going to endanger the group. And I can see why you wouldn't want leave them alive too long because STOP STEALING MY CORPSES YOU F**KER. Mesmers are the only ones you really have to watch out for and finish off during the mop up, as they have massive constant enchant removal.

Quote:

Save Yourselves doesn't work since it doesn't cover me.

/facepalm

You DO realize that if your party takes less damage, your defense has more resources to devote to protecting you, right?

bj91x · Jul 20, 2011, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Nobody has suggested that; these defensive skills are things that should go on heroes and it goes without saying.

At least two people have suggested Protective Spirit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Your failure to adapt is going to hurt; it is right you should struggle if you are not going to alter your play and don't aim to improve.

Creating new builds (since my usual builds don't work) and plowing through the quests without even coming close to dying with my new builds =/= failure to adapt. It is very much me adapting to create new builds that work for WoC content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

/facepalm

You DO realize that if your party takes less damage, your defense has more resources to devote to protecting you, right?

My healers don't run out of resources and my heroes aren't dying so you can save your facepalm, thanks.

I don't know if it's just my imagination but this seems to be turning into an argument so I'm going to make this my last post before things really get ugly (and finish it with a smile). I have no trouble going through WoC quests with my heroes be it NM or HM. All I wanted was some ideas for my Assassin builds so that I can continue to pew pew WoC quests rather than just watch my heroes do all the work while I stand there twiddling my thumbs.

Again, thanks for trying to help.

Calista Blackblood · Jul 20, 2011, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj91x

I don't know if it's just my imagination but this seems to be turning into an argument so I'm going to make this my last post before things really get ugly (and finish it with a smile). I have no trouble going through WoC quests with my heroes be it NM or HM. All I wanted was some ideas for my Assassin builds so that I can continue to pew pew WoC quests rather than just watch my heroes do all the work while I stand there twiddling my thumbs.

Again, thanks for trying to help.

It isn't turning into an argument.

Xenomortis · Jul 20, 2011, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj91x

At least two people have suggested Protective Spirit.

Of course, but I never got the impression that this was something that was to go on the player's bar. If you've already got that in your hero setup then that's good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj91x

All I wanted was some ideas for my Assassin builds so that I can continue to pew pew WoC quests rather than just watch my heroes do all the work while I stand there twiddling my thumbs.

As I said before, I can either suggest copying a complete setup from someone else, I can suggest various builds to run in tandem or I can suggest alterations to your current setup that may make it work. I would prefer to do the latter but that would require you to post your full hero setup and ideally, explain what the point of failure is.

Since you've said you've struggled to get a dagger build to work then either something is wrong with the builds you're using or you the way you play with them is poor. You created this thread to get build ideas without giving much information yourself and therein lies the problem. However, at least one complete hero setup has been posted in full (twice actually).

Bobby2 · Jul 20, 2011, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj91x

Fortunately, I was able to create some good builds that cater to my style and are very fun to use.

Interest piqued! Plz share

bj91x · Jul 20, 2011, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Oh, it's not turning into an argument? OK then, I must have mistaken. It's just that some of the comments I read seemed downright rude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I would prefer to do the latter but that would require you to post your full hero setup and ideally, explain what the point of failure is...

Ah, OK. Hero set up. Now I'm starting to understand the confusion. This is my first time discussing a build so I forgot that a lot of people here use full hero team builds.

Basically, I don't have a full hero set up so there's nothing for me to post as far as my team set up is concerned. I take whatever hero I feel like taking at the time. Like I mentioned above, I just needed 2 skills to put on my Assassin (not my hero Assassins if there was any confusion regarding this) that keep me alive and allow me to go pew pew pew. My heroes stay alive just fine. I just don't like it when my heroes do all the work while I just stand there twiddling my thumbs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Interest piqued! Plz share

I'm not sure why people are interested in my builds. They're nothing special and probably nothing you haven't seen before. And from my experience, any time somebody posts a build, some people like it and some people say it desn't work for them or that they don't enjoy the build. Anyways, here are the builds that I'm currently using for WoC in case it gives anybody some ideas. Don't blame me if you don't think they're fun. I think they're a blast to use.

I wouldn't recommend copying my builds skill to skill. Everybody has a different style so change these to make them work better for you. For example, I know some players don't like to carry res skills.

This one is the dagger spam build I was looking for with 2 defensive skills.

Golden Fox Strike
Wild Strike
Death Blossom
Way of the Assassin
Crtical Eye
Vital Boon
Signet of Pious Light
Res

I use a Zealous dagger for this build since it needs the extra energy. Basically, I cast Vital Boon and charge in. If they remove it, "Great, thank you for the heal, let me recast it again." If I need healing while I still have Vital Boon, I cast Signet of Pious Light to restore about 265 HP, recast Vital Boon, then resume pew pew pew. With Vital Boon's heal upon removal and quick recharge, the enemies can remove my enchantments all day.

Like I previously said, I'm not a fan of Assassin's Promise build. Ironically, this AP build is currently my favorite build for my Assassin.

Arcane Echo
Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support
Assassin's Promise
Shirinking Armor
Accumulated Pain
Illusion of Weakness
Shadow Sanctuary
Res

I use a staff to increase my energy reserve to 50. While I don't use daggers to pew pew, this build allows me to pew pew with my spells. This effectively turns my Assassin into a spell caster. I use Illusion of Weakness when I enter the zone. Since I fight at range, I rarely have to recast this. I Arcane Echo my Ebon Vanguard Assassin on a target, then I cast Assassin's Promise then Shirinking Armor to cover AP. I then start casting Accumulated Pain. Even in HM, this is more than enough to kill an Afflicted dead within seconds. I often can't even get off Accumulated Pain since the enemies die before this spell completes.

On enemies with less health, I cast AP, then SA. Then I cast EVAS. This results in a knock down by EVA.

On a side note, I hated how my Assassin looked wielding a staff. It just looked awkward having an Assassin hold a pretty white staff. Since my Assassin uses the spiky looking Ancient armor set for the AP build, I got her the spiky looking Staff of Purity. Now my Assassin looks horny and awesome.